The Glover/Bibby/Owen family

My 4 times great grandmother, Ruth Glover was baptised at Upholland, Lancashire, of Dalton, Wigan on the 6th May 1804, she was the daughter of Hugh Glover and Mary Gregson.

Ruth had a number of children with partners she was not married to.

The first was Mary Ann Glover, she was baptised at Upholland on the 12th September 1824 to a single Ruth, of Rainford, Lancashire.  Mary Ann went on to marry a George Webster at St Helens in 1841.

Then, in about 1830, a son called Hugh Glover was born to Ruth.  He went on to marry a Mary Pye at St Wilfred, Farnworth, near Widnes in 1852.

On the 30th January 1832, Ruth went on to marry a Jonathan Bibby at All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire.

2 children were born to Jonathan and Ruth;  Michael (1832 – 1910) and Jessie (1836 – 1890), both born in Rainford.

However, Jonathan Bibby appears to have died before 1841, as he does not appear on that census in Rainford alongside Ruth and children up to that point.  Ruth is listed as an agricultural labourer in 1841.

Moving ahead to the 1851 census, which gives more detail than the 1841 census, Ruth shows up as a widowed housekeeper, with an extra 2 children, Ann Bibby, who went on to marry a John Bridge (About 1843 – 1915), and William Bibby, my great great great grandfather.

William Owen Bibby was born on the 11th March 1845 at Scotch Row, Eccleston in Prescot, Lancashire (now part of St Helens).  The Owen part is quite important here as it gives a clue as to who the father was.

Also on the 1851 census with this family is a William Owen, an agricultural labourer, lodger, unmarried aged 41, born in Kirby, Lancashire.

At his first marriage at Rainford on the 6th June 1869, to Ellen Cullen (nee Mousdel), William Owen Bibby gives his father’s name as William Bibby.  However, on the 16th February 1889, William remarries as a widower, to an Elizabeth Hart at St Peter’s, Parr.  Here the truth is revealed, his father’s name is William Owen.

William and Ellen (nee Mousdel) had 3 children (Ellen having had 8 children with her first husband, Edward Cullen);  James Bibby (1870 – 1940) married a Margaret Hewitt, and had 2 daughters, Ethel and Lydia;  William Bibby (1872 – 1895) sadly died aged only 23 and my great great grandfather, Francis Bibby (1874 – 1952)

Francis’s son, William Bibby (1901 – 1987) was my great grandfather, his daughter, Eva, my nan.

Going back to William Owen, the lodger in the 1851 census, I managed to find him in the 1861 census, he was living with his mum, Elizabeth Owen (nee Moorcroft), his father was George Owen, 1769 – 1836.

A descendant of a sibling of George Owen has been found and has done a DNA test, and shows up as a DNA match, which links to the wider Owen family, therefore confirming my suspicions that William Owen, the 1851 lodger, born on the 14th December 1811 to George and Elizabeth, baptised at St Mary the Virgin, Prescot on the 12th January 1812 is my great great great great grandfather.




Thomas Pointon (1872 – 1927)

Gt Grandfather Thomas Pointon
Thomas Pointon (1872 – 1927)

Thomas was my great great grandfather, born on the 9th May 1872 at Vale Pleasant, Silverdale, Staffordshire to George (a miner) and Ann (nee Hough)

On the 13th June 1892, Thomas married Abigail Stockton, daughter of George and Emily (nee Shaw) at St Mary’s church, Knutton.

Thomas Pointon 1872 to 1927
Thomas Pointon (1872 – 1927)

Thomas and Abigail had moved to St Helens, Lancashire from Staffordshire between 1901 and 1903 and had 4 children who survived – Frederick, Louisa, Alfred and John Thomas

He died on the 8th January 1927 at Francis Street, Sutton, St Helens and was buried at St Nicholas, Sutton on the 13th January 1927.


DNA find helps with great grandmother question

This morning, while going through my DNA matches, I came across a match who had these people within their tree:

The match is a 5th to 8th cousin match, so I didn’t expect them to be particularly close, however, I do have both Glovers and Jacksons in the family tree.

Looking at the Glovers first, they were in the wrong area, but when I spotted Huntingdonshire with a link to Jacksons, I was a little bit excited.

My great grandmother, Elizabeth Harrison, has Jacksons on her dad’s side from Huntingdonshire, and if I could link these Jacksons in this matches family tree to my Jacksons, then this would be my best find in quite a while among my dna matches.

I searched for the baptism of Susannah Jackson, to a Mary in Huntingdonshire in 1808.  There was only one I could see, on the 2nd October 1808 at Holme.

The next thing I did was to check on a map for the distance between Connington (where some of my Jacksons lived) and Holme , the 2 places were very close.  I then checked for the baptism of a Mary Jackson at about the right time in my family tree and online, a 6th great aunt, Mary Jackson was baptised at Connington, Huntingdonshire to William and Mary Jackson in 1786.  A descendant of Mary would fit in nicely to the relationship projection of 5th to 8th cousin for the dna match I was looking at.

I believe that this Mary was the sister of my 5 times great grandfather, Edward Jackson.

I am very happy to have found this match, the first on my great grandmother’s paternal side.

The Harrison family

My great grandmother, Elizabeth Harrison, who i’ve mentioned before, here, was apparently the daughter of Frederick Harrison and Theresa Traverse.

Frederick, born in St Helens, Lancashire, in 1877 was one of 10 children born to William Jackson Harrison (born in Hull, Yorkshire in 1848 to another William Harrison, a shoemaker, and his wife Ann Jackson) and Alice Smith (born in 1854, the daughter of John Smith and his wife, Alice Owen in St Helens)

The Harrisons were, like many other families a large family.  Other children of William Jackson Harrison and Alice Smith were William John Harrison born 1872, Alice Ann Harrison born 1874 (She went on to marry the brother of Theresa Traverse, Thomas Henry), there was a Frederick born in 1874 who died as a baby, Sarah Ellen Harrison born 1880 married a Henry Bickerstaffe, Louisa Harrison born 1882 married a John William Hawksworth, Ellen Harrison baptised in 1884, Florrie Harrison born in about 1886 married a William Henry Kay, a Robert Harrison was born in about 1890, and finally, a Harriett Harrison was born in about 1892.

The family lived in the Peasley Cross area of St Helens, and many of the men in the family were miners, just as lots of those in the area were.

Are you also descended from William and Alice and would like to get in touch?  Please use the contact form here.

The Essex Fordham females

One idea I had to try to locate my great great grandfather, Walter Fordham Cox, was to attempt to track all females whose maiden name was Fordham, born only in the West Ham registration district from 1860 to 1870 through to the 1891 census.

My aim here was to discover if any of them had a child living with them whose birth had not been registered as expected; my thinking that any children living with them whose births had not been registered were possible candidates for Walter Fordham Cox.  (A possible nephew of one of these.)

Having now completed this, unfortunately I have to say that I did not discover Walter in any of the households of the 6 females I was able to trace to the 1891 census.  A further 3 females died as young children. While there were also births of 4 males caled Fordham during this period, I did not attempt to trace the males further in this excercise.

The Fordham family

If you’ve been following this blog, you may know that there’s a bit of a mystery about who the father is of my grandmother, Beatrice Eleanor Chapman, born 1925 in Edinburgh, Scotland.

DNA evidence appears to point to a family called Cox from the London and Essex areas of England being related, with 3 confirmed matches that seem to point to a Walter Fordham Cox being my great great grandfather.

The question then arises, who is the Fordham?  And to which family does he belong?

There are a couple of possibilities here.  Given that it has been extremely difficult to track down Walter Fordham Cox beyond his birth, with no death being found for him in his first few years of life, and not appearing on the 1891, 1901 or 1911 English, Welsh or Scottish census, it is my opinion that he may well have been out of the country for some period of time.  The fact that I can vaguely remember my grandfather, the partner of Beatrice,  some years ago referring to some sort of connection to France, with no connection found so far on any other branches of the family tree, this would seem to be the most obvious branch where that connection could have been.

However, at some point there would have had to have been travel made to Edinburgh in the early 1920s by my unknown great grandfather, for my great grandmother, Frances Eleanor Chapman to fall pregnant in Edinburgh.

And so, with this in mind, I decided to look for any Fordhams in the Edinburgh area.

There aren’t that many of them who appear in the Edinburgh area at the right sort of time.

The first Fordham I found was a James Fordham who married in Edinburgh in 1897:

This James, a policeman from the London area seemingly, according to the Scottish marriage entry.  He appears on the 1891 census in Marylebone, London, England.

Also, James’s family are easily found in Swaffham Bulbeck, Cambridgeshire in 1861.

However, there is another possible Fordham, who Walter Fordham Cox could be related to, if there were any Fordham relations in Edinburgh, him being a Thomas Henry Fordham.

In 1922, a Thomas Henry Fordham married an Isabella McBeath in Edinburgh.  Thomas Henry’s father also being a Thomas Henry Fordham, his mother being Ellen Soundy.

I have also located a Thomas Herbert Fordham, who, in 1925 was of 110 Lauriston Place, Edinburgh, Scotland, according to the 1925 Scottish Valuation rolls when I was searching for Thomas Henry, and/or his parents, I could not see a Thomas Henry Fordham.

110 Lauriston Place wasn’t very far from Home Street, Edinburgh, where my great grandmother, Frances Eleanor Chapman, and her parents, Henry and Eleanor Isabella were living in 1925.

Could James, or Thomas provide a clue to discovering my unknown Fordham relatives?  Does any of this sound familiar to you at all?  Have you considered taking a DNA test for family history purposes?






Transcript of the will of Nicholas Wright 1845

Nicholas Wright, born in about 1765, was one of my five times great grandfathers, via my paternal grandad’s mother, Ann Wright, Wife of Frederick Pointon.  Although there is no substantial evidence that his parents were John Wright and Ann Barton, I believe it to be the case, both through discounting others, naming traditions and due to the fact that I have managed to confirm a DNA link back to John Wright and Ann Barton, via one of Nicholas’s supposed siblings.

Nicholas was a farmer who lived in North Meols, Lancashire, who married twice.  The first time to Anne Boond, the second to Alice Howard.  My ancestor is, I believe, Nicholas and Anne’s only child, John Wright born in about 1790/1.  Anne Boond died shortly after  giving birth to John,  and Nicholas went on to have another 7 children with his second wife, Alice;  Jenny, James, Ann, Peggy, Elizabeth, Alice and Mary.

All 8 children are named in Nicholas’s will, who died on the 11th January 1849, of Little London, and who was buried at St Cuthbert’s, North Meols on the 15th January.  Probate was granted on the 1st February 1849.

This is the last Will and Testament of me Nicholas Wright of Little London within North Meols in the county of Lancaster Farmer made this second day of June in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and forty five (being of sound and disposing mind memory and understanding)

First I order and direct the payment of my just debts funeral and Testamentary expences from and out of my personal Estate and Effects Then I give and devise my Messuage or cottage situate in Seabank road in South Port within North Mels aforesaid with the appurtenances thereto belonging which I hold by Lease under Peter Hesketh Fleetwood Esquire, unto my Sons and Daughters hereinafter particularly mentioned viz. John, James, Jane, the children of my daughter Ann late wife of James Rimmer Farmer, Margaret wife of Peter Rimmer, and Alice wife of James Ball their respective heirs executors administrators and assigns Share and Share alike as tenants in common and not as joint tenants.

And the issue of such of them as shall be then dead each set of children to take the share which their parent would have taken if then living

I do order and direct that my hereinafternamed executors shall as soon as convenient after my decease make sale of the whole of my Household Furniture Farming Stock Goods Cattle Chattels by Public Auction for the best price and most money that can be got for the same and with the money to arise from such sale my executors shall pay divide and apportion the same unto and amongst my Sons and Daughters hereinaftermentioned into eight equal shares and proportions (that is to say)

– One eighth share thereof unto my Son John his heirs and assigns – One eighth share thereof unto my Son James – One eighth share thereof unto my Daughter Jane – One eighth share thereof unto the children of my Daughter Ann late wife of James Rimmer Farmer aforesaid – One eighth share thereof unto my Daughter Margaret – One eighth share thereof unto my Daughter Alice – One eighth share thereof unto the children of my Daughter Betty late wife of Peter Rimmer of Little London – One eighth share thereof unto the child of my Daughter Mary late wife of Thomas Ball Blacksmith South Port

-It is my will and mind and I order and direct that in case any of my said Daughters shall be dead at the time of the division and apportionment as aforesaid Then the share of such Daughter so dying before that time to be paid and payable unto her children share and share alike

-I do hereby nominate and appoint my said Son James and my said Son in law – Peter Rimmer of Birkdale Executors of this my Will and I do hereby declare that they their Executors and administrators shall be chargeable only for such monies as they shall respectively actually receive by virtue of this my Will that they shall not be answerable for each other’s acts –

And I do declare that the receipts of my said executors shall be good and sufficient discharges and I direct them to retain out of my Effects all costs they may be put unto in the execution of this my Will:-  And revoking all other wills or testamentory dispositions made by me at any time or times heretofore:-  I do declare this present writing contains in one sheet of paper to be my last Will and Testament In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and seal the day and year above written

[Nicholas Wright signature] [seal]

Robert Ball

John Ball

James Coxhead



Walter Fordham Cox (1890 – ?)

Following on from this post, two additional DNA matches have come to light, which link into the wider family (Giving 5 known matches in total who are linked to this family), seemingly cementing the case set out below.

Both matches appear on My Heritage:

From all available evidence, when initially looking at the first couple of matches to appear, it seemed as though the link had to be somehow related to my unknown great grandfather.  Trying to fit in the matches on known lines did not make any sense, particularly when many of the other lines have now been confirmed through DNA, and with only the one unknown great grandparent of mine.

All the related DNA matches, and the amount of shared DNA, make the case that I am descended from a child of William Cox (1847 – 1915), son of Robert and Amelia (nee Morgan) and Louisa Moore (1851 – 1897), daughter of John Isaac Moore and Elizabeth Smith, who married in Shoreditch, London in 1869.

William Cox and Louisa Moore had 7 children; Louisa (died as a baby), William (1871 -1962), Louisa (1874 – 1890), Robert (1876 – 1910), Edward (1880 – ), Benjamin (1882 – ) and George (1886 – 1973).

Several of these children emigrated to Australia at roughly the sort of time when a child of theirs would have had to have been born to make them a match for my unknown great grandfather.

Attention quickly turned to Louisa (1874 – 1890), was it possible that before her death at an early age of 16, she had a child?  This would make the most sense as a candidate for my great grandfather or great great grandfather..

As I mentioned, Louisa sadly died in 1890 aged 16, which meant that if this theory were to prove true, Louisa would have had to have had a child fairly shortly before her death.

I decided to do a search of the new online GRO birth index, which includes mother’s maiden name from 1837 to look for any possible Cox’s which could fall into that category, and found the following entry:

My great great grandfather?

A Walter Fordham Cox was born to a single Louisa Cox on the 11th March 1890 at 27 Richmond Road, Walthamstow, Essex, England.

The Louisa on the birth certificate was a domestic servant.  It seems probable that the father’s surname was Fordham.

At this point in time it cannot be 100% confirmed that this Louisa is the same daughter of William and Louisa (nee Moore), and I have not been able to sight Walter Fordham or Cox in the English, Welsh or Scottish Census of 1891, 1901 or 1911.

However, neither have I found a likely death for this Walter Fordham Cox.  There was a Walter Fordham born towards the end of 1889, who appears to have died in 1891, both birth and death registered as Walter Fordham.

Additionally, it has now been confirmed through another distant cousin in Australia that Louisa did indeed have a child. Much of the wider family did not know apparently.

I believe that Walter Fordham Cox could possibly be my great great grandfather, and I suspect if this is my direct descendant, that Walter, like his mum became a parent at a young age, and that child, possibly born between about 1904 to 1908 in Scotland, or possibly France, who is likely registered under his mum’s surname, whatever that is, is my great grandfather.

I mention France as it has been said that there is some link to France, as of yet, no link has been discovered.  If there is a link then it could very well explain the disappearance of Walter Fordham Cox from England, with no sign of him in England, Scotland or Wales between 1891 and 1911.  Possibly his son, my great grandfather, partner of Frances Eleanor Chapman was born in France in the early 1900s?

If a descendant of Walter is reading this post, and has considered doing a DNA test for family history, then that would be a great idea!

If anyone reading this thinks this all sounds familiar and can help to solve this mystery, then please do get in touch through the online form by clicking here.

Ann Hough (1850 – 1903)

Until a couple of days ago, I was a little bit puzzled as to what happened to my 3rd great grandmother, Ann Hough, after her appearance with her husband, George Pointon, and family, in the 1881 census “Near Royal Oak”, Knutton, Staffordshire, England.

George had appeared in the 1891 census as married, at Vale Pleasant, Knutton, Staffordshire, an ironstone miner.

I found George Pointon’s death, caused by injuries due to an accident at the Harrison and Woodburn Pit, Leycett in 1894, however it puzzled me why I could not find any mention of Ann.

I had been searching for a possible death, with no luck, but then turned my attention to a possible marriage, and found it!

Ann Pointon, the daughter of John Hough (and Elizabeth Jones), a widow, married John Lloyd, a batchelor and a miner, father Edward, at Holy Trinity, Sneyd, Staffordshire on the 26th June 1894.

I found John and Ann Lloyd on the 1901 census at Tunstall, Staffordshire, with a son, John B(luch) Lloyd, born in about 1888.  John Bluch Lloyd was born in 1887, and the mother’s maiden name was Hough.

The puzzle of where Ann was in 1891 had been cleared up, she was listed as Ann Lloyd in that year’s census, living with her future husband and son.

I also found the death registered in 1903 of Ann Lloyd.

So, not only had I discovered what happened to Ann, I had also found a new 3rd great uncle, I had never heard about before.

Moral of the story, if you think someone might have died, try checking for a marriage first.  I certainly will.

Elizabeth Artless (1797 – 1864)

In northern Staffordshire, England, about 1797, a girl was born called Elizabeth Artless/Hartless.

Elizabeth was my 4th great grandmother, unfortunately no baptism record has yet been found.

On the 27th June 1825, Elizabeth, apparently of the parish of Stoke on Trent at the time, a spinster, married John Stockton, the son (I believe) of Peter and Ann, a collier, widower of Keele at Stoke on Trent.

John and Elizabeth Stockton went on to have 7 children that I know of;  Richard, William, John, George (my line), James Henry, Elijah and Anne between 1826 and 1841.

John and Elizabeth can be found on the 1841, 1851 and 1861 census.  Elizabeth’s age is consistently given to indicate a birth in about 1797, while her place of birth is given as Keele, Staffordshire in 1851 and Balterley, Staffordshire in 1861.

On the 17th March 1864, Elizabeth Stockton, nee Artless/Hartless died of Bronchitis at the High Street, Silverdale, Staffordshire.

Elizabeth was buried at Keele, Staffordshire on the 20th March 1864.

Is there anyone who knows anything of the Artless/Hartless family from the north Staffordshire area?  If so, please do get in touch by clicking here, i’d be pleased to hear from you.