The Fordham family

If you’ve been following this blog, you may know that there’s a bit of a mystery about who the father is of my grandmother, Beatrice Eleanor Chapman, born 1925 in Edinburgh, Scotland.

DNA evidence appears to point to a family called Cox from the London and Essex areas of England being related, with 3 confirmed matches that seem to point to a Walter Fordham Cox being my great great grandfather.

The question then arises, who is the Fordham?  And to which family does he belong?

There are a couple of possibilities here.  Given that it has been extremely difficult to track down Walter Fordham Cox beyond his birth, with no death being found for him in his first few years of life, and not appearing on the 1891, 1901 or 1911 English, Welsh or Scottish census, it is my opinion that he may well have been out of the country for some period of time.  The fact that I can vaguely remember my grandfather, the partner of Beatrice,  some years ago referring to some sort of connection to France, with no connection found so far on any other branches of the family tree, this would seem to be the most obvious branch where that connection could have been.

However, at some point there would have had to have been travel made to Edinburgh in the early 1920s by my unknown great grandfather, for my great grandmother, Frances Eleanor Chapman to fall pregnant in Edinburgh.

And so, with this in mind, I decided to look for any Fordhams in the Edinburgh area.

There aren’t that many of them who appear in the Edinburgh area at the right sort of time.

The first Fordham I found was a James Fordham who married in Edinburgh in 1897:

This James, a policeman from the London area seemingly, according to the Scottish marriage entry.  He appears on the 1891 census in Marylebone, London, England.

Also, James’s family are easily found in Swaffham Bulbeck, Cambridgeshire in 1861.

However, there is another possible Fordham, who Walter Fordham Cox could be related to, if there were any Fordham relations in Edinburgh, him being a Thomas Henry Fordham.

In 1922, a Thomas Henry Fordham married an Isabella McBeath in Edinburgh.  Thomas Henry’s father also being a Thomas Henry Fordham, his mother being Ellen Soundy.

I have also located a Thomas Herbert Fordham, who, in 1925 was of 110 Lauriston Place, Edinburgh, Scotland, according to the 1925 Scottish Valuation rolls when I was searching for Thomas Henry, and/or his parents, I could not see a Thomas Henry Fordham.

110 Lauriston Place wasn’t very far from Home Street, Edinburgh, where my great grandmother, Frances Eleanor Chapman, and her parents, Henry and Eleanor Isabella were living in 1925.

Could James, or Thomas provide a clue to discovering my unknown Fordham relatives?  Does any of this sound familiar to you at all?  Have you considered taking a DNA test for family history purposes?

 

 

 

 

 

A step closer to my great grandfather?

For some time now, an enduring mystery has been who is the father of my grandmother, Beatrice Eleanor Chapman?

I have been going through DNA matches for a while trying to sort them into those that also match with 1st cousins and a half 1st cousin of my mum and dad, so I can identify a grandparent related to each match that I can see in common with any particular cousin who has tested.

Recently, my mum also tested with Family Tree DNA, and her results were interesting to look at, as one of my top matches is also one of mum’s top matches on FTDNA.

ftdna-screenshot-mum-top-matches
Some of mum’s top matches on Family Tree DNA

The 2nd DNA match down in the image above is the match of interest to my mum.  In the image below, the 1st DNA match is the same match on my match list:

ftdna-screenshot-my-top-matches

I have deliberately removed any names from the screenshots above.

Having been in contact with this DNA match some time ago I can say that this person’s ancestors in the relevant timescale were from south east England, from London and the surrounding counties.

I decided to try playing around with an experimental family tree, to see if I added different people’s names during the right timeframe in different positions, based on the amounts of shared DNA in common and making an educated guess based on those shared amounts in relation to DNA matches I have managed to confirm, whether I would get any shared ancestor hints on the Ancestry DNA test, which I upoaded to FTDNA some time ago.

Sure enough, I had to get a shared ancestor hint eventually from this process, and it came by placing this family in the tree on the branch of my unknown great grandfather!  And it links in fairly nicely with my estimate, although possibly a generation out.

cox-shared-ancestor-hint

Although this isn’t the same DNA match as on the FTDNA website, they are related, through a different branch of the Cox family.

I mentioned briefly above that I am possibly a generation out.  If you’ve read my “Beatrice’s Story” post, you may know that my grandmother, Beatrice Eleanor Chapman was born in Edinburgh, Scotland in 1925.

I decided to try looking for a Cox family in the Edinburgh area on the Scottish 1911 census who were born in England, I found this family living in Quality Street, Cramond, on the outskirts of Edinburgh in 1911:

george-cox-and-family-1911-cramond-census

As you can see from the above image, George Cox, aged 44 was born in England.  This would mean that he was born in about 1867.

Going back to the shared ancestor hint image further above, you’ll notice the shared ancestors are William Cox and Louisa Moore, they did have a son called George, only he was born much later than 1867.

William Cox, however, also had a brother called George Cox born at about the right time to be the same George as shown in the 1911 census. William and George being children of Robert Cox and Amelia Morgan.

From the birth registration of one of George and Mary E’s children, the certificate states that George and Mary Ellen (nee Tuttle) were married in London, England in the mid 1890s, this would place them in the right area to fit in with the other Cox family members at the right time.

And so, it is possible that one of George and Mary Ellen’s son’s is my great grandfather.  George W, born about 1896, Tom R. C. born about 1901, or Jack A, born in about 1905.  The same year Frances Eleanor Chapman was born.

Or I could be completely wrong!

UPDATE 22/11/16.  The George Cox in the census image above appears to have been born in Lincolnshire, not London. 

Ann Hough (1850 – 1903)

Until a couple of days ago, I was a little bit puzzled as to what happened to my 3rd great grandmother, Ann Hough, after her appearance with her husband, George Pointon, and family, in the 1881 census “Near Royal Oak”, Knutton, Staffordshire, England.

George had appeared in the 1891 census as married, at Vale Pleasant, Knutton, Staffordshire, an ironstone miner.

I found George Pointon’s death, caused by injuries due to an accident at the Harrison and Woodburn Pit, Leycett in 1894, however it puzzled me why I could not find any mention of Ann.

I had been searching for a possible death, with no luck, but then turned my attention to a possible marriage, and found it!

Ann Pointon, the daughter of John Hough (and Elizabeth Jones), a widow, married John Lloyd, a batchelor and a miner, father Edward, at Holy Trinity, Sneyd, Staffordshire on the 26th June 1894.

I found John and Ann Lloyd on the 1901 census at Tunstall, Staffordshire, with a son, John B(luch) Lloyd, born in about 1888.  John Bluch Lloyd was born in 1887, and the mother’s maiden name was Hough.

The puzzle of where Ann was in 1891 had been cleared up, she was listed as Ann Lloyd in that year’s census, living with her future husband and son.

I also found the death registered in 1903 of Ann Lloyd.

So, not only had I discovered what happened to Ann, I had also found a new 3rd great uncle, I had never heard about before.

Moral of the story, if you think someone might have died, try checking for a marriage first.  I certainly will.

The Pim/Pym family

Betsy Pimm, the daughter of Reuben and Ann (nee Bradshaw) was born on the 16th March 1839, and baptised at St. Mary, Lancaster/Lancaster Priory, on the 9th June that same year.  Reuben was a white smith.

Betsy went on to marry John Walter Chapman “son of Thomas and Sophie”, a carpenter, at St. Peter’s Roman Catholic Church in Lancaster in 1857.  They are one set of my three times great grandparents.

Betsy’s grandparents were Reuben and Margaret (nee Blaickow) who had married at St. Mary, Lancaster in 1785, both were of Skerton at the time of their marriage.  Reuben had previously been married to a Jane Butler at Lancaster  in 1782, at that time of the 47th regiment of foot.

On the first October 1817, a removal order was issued that stated “Reuben Pym and Margaret his wife” should be removed from Lancaster, to their “lawful settlement….of Banwell in the County of Somersett”

Reuben was buried at St. Mary, Lancaster on the 9th September 1821, aged 71, from the age given at his burial, we can guess that he was born in about 1750, and we can observe that clearly, Reuben and Margaret were not removed to Banwell in Somerset, or if they had been, had made their way back to Lancaster to live out the last years of their lives with their children surrounding them.

However, it does potentially give us a clue as to Reuben’s origins, Banwell in Somerset.

The Ancestry website has recently added some new records, interestingly, for Somerset, so I decided to do some searching for any potential clues.

There is a baptism of a Reuben Pim recorded at Banwell, Somerset.  But, it is in 1744, 6 years earlier than Reuben’s approximate date of birth, to William and Frances on the 18th May 1744.

This Reuben appears to have married an Anstice Kitching in 1765, then as a widower, to a Mary Quick in 1769.  And this is where it gets interesting.

On the 5th January 1783, there are 2 baptisms to Reuben and Mary at Banwell, Somerset.  William, aged 5 years 6 months, and Phillip, aged 19 months.

At 22 Marton Street, Lancaster, Lancashire on the 1851 Census are the following family:

Philip Pimm – Head – Mar. – 76 – Ship Carpenter – born Bristol, Somerset

Margaret Pimm – Wife – Mar. – 66 – born Lancaster, Lancashire

George Pimm – Son – Unmarr. – 24 – Cordwainer – born Lancaster

Robert Pimm – Son – Unmarr. – 17 – Tailor – born Lancaster

William Pimm – Grandson – 8 – scholar – born Lancaster

Maria Pimm – Grand dau – 3 – born Lancaster

This Philip Pim is most likely the same Philip who was baptised at Banwell, Somerset to Reuben and Mary, and due to the removal order naming Banwell, Somerset as the “lawful settlement” of Reuben and Margaret, it is highly likely that these families were closely linked in some way.

The Reuben baptised in 1744 at Banwell was either the same Reuben who went on to marry Jane Butler, then Margaret Blaickow in Lancaster, or, he was the Reuben who married Anstice Kitching, then Mary Quick in Somerset.

Could the 2 Reubens have been cousins?  The families must have known each other.

 

 

Some more research notes

Various notes on bits of paper i’ve gathered over the years.  As always in these posts, not all of these people are related to me, but I noted these things down at the time as they could have been.

From the Staffordshire BMD indexes:

Hannah Pointon death registered 1871 Newcastle under Lyme, Audey sub district, ref. AUD/011/41

Hannah Pointon death registered 1877 Newcastle under Lyme, Audley sub district, ref. AUD/014/4

George Pointon death registered 1888 Newcastle under Lyme, Audley sub district, ref. AUD/018/99

Thomas Stockton married Mary H Grocott – St. Margaret, Wolstanton – 1873 – ref. C30/12/450

Alfred Stockton married Kate Lightfoot – St. Mary, Knutton – 1884 – ref. C15/1/101

Samuel Stockton married Jane Hughes – St. Mary, Knutton – 1887 – ref. C15/1/175

Alexander Stockton married Ellen Dickin – St. Luke, Silverdale – 1892 – ref. C26/1/458

William J Stockton married Elizabeth Key – St. Mary, Knutton – 1893 – ref. C15/1/383

Thomas Stockton married Rosalina Stubbs – St. Mary, Knutton – 1895 – ref. C15/1/408

From St. Mary, Lancaster, Lancashire parish registers:

Baptisms to John and Peggy Woodhouse –

Nancy on the 30th June 1791

Agnes on the 15th January 1789

Jane on the 3rd January 1799

Mary on the 3rd January 1796

Betty on the 11th April 1793

John on the 15th August 1802

Margaret on the 3rd April 1800

Thomas Dickinson on the 26th August 1805

From the GRO Index:

Alice Pedder death registered Lancaster March quarter 1843, ref. 21 362

Peter Pedder death registered Preston September quarter 1845, ref. 21 354

Mary Ann Bradshaw death registered Lancaster March quarter 1850, ref. 21 382

James Docker death registered Ulverston March quarter 1857, ref. 8e 428

Isabella Willison death registered Ulverston March quarter 1895 aged 69, ref. 8e 641

James Holme death registered Kendal March quarter 1840, ref. 25 331

James Holme death registered Ulverston March quarter 1868, aged 67, ref. 8e 472

From the 1841 England Census

36 Bridge Lane, Lancaster –

William Bradshaw – 37 – Blockmaker – born Lancashire

Mary Ann Bradshaw – 37 – born Lancashire

Edward Bradshaw – 11 – born Lancashire

Margaret Bradshaw – 5 – born Lancashire

Betsy Bradshaw – 9 months – born Lancashire

12 St. George’s Quay, Lancaster –

Christopher Bradshaw – 65 – Burtons mariner – born Lancashire

May C. Bradshaw – 60 – born Lancashire

Agnes Bradshaw – 20 – born Lancashire

Under Gardens, Damside Street, Lancaster –

Edward Bradshaw – 32 – currier & leather dealer – born Lancashire

Margaret Bradshaw – 32 – not born Lancashire

William Bradshaw – 9 – not born Lancashire

John Bradshaw – 7 – not born Lancashire

Elizabeth Bradshaw – 6 – born Lancashire

Hannah Bradshaw – 2 – born Lancashire

Margaret Bradshaw junior – 8 months – born Lancashire

From the 1851 England Census:

Parr Stocks, Parr –

Peter Cundliffe – Head – coal miner – 56 – born Parr

Mary Cundliffe – Wife – 55 – born Parr

Joseph Cundliffe – Son – coal miner – 16 – born Parr

Saml. Cundliffe – Son – coal miner – 13 – born Parr

John Cundliffe – Son – wid. – coal miner – 35 – born Parr

Miles Cundliffe – Son – wid. – coal miner – 32 – brn Parr

Mary Cundliffe – G. Dau. – scholar – 8 – born Parr

John Cundliffe – G. Son – scholar – 10 – born Parr

Ralph Cundliffe – G. Son – scholar – 8 – born Parr

Mary Cundliffe – G. Dau. – scholar – 6 – born Parr

And from the 1861 England Census:

Park Road Beerhouse, Parr  –

Thomas Francis – Head – marr. – 40 – Beerseller – born Parr

Esther Francis – Wife – marr. – 40 – born Parr

Wm. Francis – Son — 18 – born Parr

John Francis – Son – 15 – born Parr

Ellen Francis – Dau – 8 – born Parr

Elizth. Francis – Dau. – 2 – born Parr

Samuel Francis – Son – 4 mths. – born Parr

 

 

More research notes

Some more notes from various sources in my notebooks and on scraps of paper.  As always, spellings are as the originals, and not all of the following will be related, but I noted them down at the time as they might be.

From St. Helens, Lancashire electoral registers:

Registered at 22 Chester Lane in the 1901 register – William Harrison

At 31 Tickle Street also in 1901 – Frederick Bibby

Registered at 31 Herbert Street in the 1907 register – Thomas Pointon

Burials from St. Nicholas, Sutton, St. Helens:

18th May 1907 – Thomas Pointer of Herbert Street – 2 days old

10th October 1914 – Ellen Harrison of Chester Lane – 51 years

11th February 1914 – Elizabeth Harrison of 1 Nelson Street – 71 years

24th October 1917 – Frederick Victor Harrison of Garnet Street – 3 days

10th June 1919 – Alice Harrison of Clock Face Road – 55 years

24th November 1919 – James Harrison of 1 Parr Mill Road – 78 years

16th September 1920 – Evelyn Harrison of Nelson Street – 1 day

13th January 1927 – Thomas Pointer of Francis Street – 54 years

9th September 1930 – Frederick James Harrison of Garnet Street – 37 years

13th January 1940 – Elizabeth Harrison of Goodban Street – 77 years

26th June 1941 – Elizabeth Harrison of Mill Lane – 65 years

29th December 1943 – William Harrison of Boscow Crescent – 70 years

From the Cornwall census:

In 1841 at Creed:

James Dungey – 25 – farmer – Not born in Cornwall

Elener Dungey – 20 – Born Cornwall

Susannah Dungey – 3 – Born Cornwall

William Dungey- 16 months – Born Cornwall

James Dungey – 60 – shoe maker – Born Cornwall

 

In 1851 at Castles, Creed, Cornwall:

James Dungey – head – married – 72 – born Heland, Cornwall

James Dungey – son – married – 33 – farmer of 16 acres – born Chelsea

Elenor Dungey – wife – married – 35 – born St. Ewe, Cornwall

Wm. H Dungey – son – 10 – born Creed

Susan Dungey – dau – 12 – born St. Ewe

James Dungey – son – 8 – born St. Ewe

Charles Dungey – son – 6 – born St. Ewe

Elizth. Dungey – dau – 4 – born St. Ewe

Mary Dungey – dau – 2 – born St. Ewe

Thomas Dungey – son – 2 months – born Creed

 

 

 

Some more research notes

Yes, I have lots of notes, so, here are some more that are floating around on bits of paper.  As with all in this series of research notes, not all of these individuals are related, I jotted  things down at the time just in case they might be related.

 

From the Lancashire records office:

Reference QSP/2942/50 Date – 7th October 1830

Petitions – Kirkdale – Epiphany 1831

File Sutton – Order of filiation and maintenance of James, bastard child of John Allcock of Eccleston, labourer and Ellen Sherratt, singlewoman.

Reference DDX2743/MS5106

Lancaster: Order from 2 J.P.s of Lancaster to the Churchwarden and Overseers of the the Poor of Lancaster, to Convey Reuben Pym and Margaret, his wife to Banwell, Co. Somerset, their place of legal settlement. Copy 1 of 2

Dated 1st October 1817

 

1841 Census returns:

At Hindley Row, Burtonwood, Lancashire, England

Geo. Pownall – 65 – Weaver – born Lancashire

Betty Hill – 40 – widow – born Lancashire

Joseph Hill – 9 – born Lancashire

At Collins Green, Burtonwood

Wm. Hill – 25 – Joiner – Born Lancashire

Mgt. Hill – 25 – Born Lancashire

John Hill – 3 – Born Lancashire

Also at Collins Green

Wm. Hill – 75 – pauper – Born Lancashire

Ellen Whittle – 35 – Born Lancashire

Henry Hill – 12 – B’smith app – Born Lancashire

Mary Hill – 7 – Born Lancashire

Alice Whittle – 5 – Born Lancashire

Ann Whittle – 3 – Born Lancashire

Emma Whittle – 1 – Born Lancashire

At High Street, Newton, Lancashire, England

Moses Hill – 45 – Clogger – Born Lancashire

Ann Hill – 45 – Born Lancashire

Ann Hill – 15 – Born Lancashire

At Dallam Lane, Burtonwood, Lancashire

Thomas Parr – 50 – Ag lab. – Born Lancashire

Martha Parr – 50 – Born Lancashire

Vulcan Foundry, Newton, Lancashire

James Hill – 35 – labr. – Born Lancashire

Elizth. Hill – 30 – Born Lancashire

Mgt. Hill – 11 – Born Lancashire

Thomas Hill – 9 – Born Lancashire

John Hill – 7 – Born Lancashire

James Hill – 4 – Born Lancashire

Samuel Hill – 1 – Born Lancashire

Also at Vulcan Foundry

Isaac Hill – 25 – labr. – Born Lancashire

Charlot Hill – 25 – Born Lancashire

Samuel Hill – 7 – Born Lancashire

Mgt. Hill – 4 – Born Lancashire

John Hill – 3 months – Born Lancashire

 

From the probate index:

Thomas Chapman the elder died on the 3rd September 1865 at Ampthill.  Will proved at the Principal Registry by oath of Thomas Chapman of Ampthill the son & sole executor.  Effects under £3000

 

From the index of deaths:

March quarter 1959 – George W Pim – 59 – Burnley – ref. 10b 933

September quarter 1955 – Henry E Pimm – 9 – Blackburn – ref. 10b 320

December quarter 1953 – Elizabeth A Pim – 60 – Nelson – ref. 10e 516

December quarter 1952 – Herbert H Pym – 78 – Preston – 10f 292

March quarter 1952 – Amelia Pym – 80 – Fylde – 10c 302

December quarter 1949 – Alfred Pym – 86 – Lancaster – 10c 546

September quarter 1947 – Isabella Pym – 78 – Lancaster – 10c 422

March quarter 1947 – Jane A Pimm – 74 – Lancaster – 10c 780

December quarter 1946 – William Pym – 81 – Clitheroe – 10c 54

 

From St. Helens, Lancashire electoral registers, registered at each address on the 15th April 1923:  (Spellings as per the electoral register)

31 Tickle Street – Francis, Ellen and William Bibby

2 Francis Street  – Thomas Poynton and Abigail Poynton

19 Robins Lane  – George Charles Pointon and Elizabeth Pointon

37 Sandon Street – Mary Caroline Carney, George Carney, Frederick Harrison Snr. and Frederick Harrison Jnr.

 

From the 1891 Census:

At 172 Parr Stocks Road, Parr

William Bibby – 46 – Head – Coal miner – Born St. Helens, Lancashire

Elizabeth Bibby – 53 – Wife – Born St. Helens, Lancashire

Annie Sharrocks – 8 – niece – Born Chowbent, Lancashire

At 57 Appleton Street, Sutton (All born St. Helens, Lancashire)

Will Harrison – 42 – Head – Collier

Alice Harrison – 38 – Wife

John Harrison – 18 – Son – Coal miner

Alice A Harrison – 15 – Daughter – [I started to write something then scribbled it out]

Fred K Harrison – 13 – Son – Drawer pusher – glass

Sarah Harrison – 10 – Daughter

Louisa Harrison – 8 – Daughter

Ellen Harrison – 6 – Daughter

Florence Harrison – 4 – Daughter

Robert Harrison – 1 – Son

 

And finally, some notes from the probate index:

Abraham Poynton died 11th August 1924 of 7 Laburnum Cottages, Crawshawbooth, Lancs.  Admin 20th September 1924 to Norman Poynton cotton piecer.  Effects £347 15s 8d

Thomas Pointon of 2 Francis Street, St. Helens died 8th Jan 1927.  Admin Liverpool on the 24th March 1927 to Abigail Pointon widow.  Effects £50

Jane Poynton of Netherfield Road North Liverpool (Wife of Wm. Henry) died 8th April 1904 Admin Liverpool to Wm. Henry, a carter.  Effects £84 13s 4d

Mary Pointon of Miles Grn. Audley, Staffs. (Widow) died 5th September 1904.  Probate Lichfield 16th February 1905 to Thomas Pointon miner.  Effects £138 16s

Ellen Bibby of 229 Nutgrove Road, St. Helens, Lancs. widow died on the 24th July 1933.  Probate London on the 8th August 1933 to Albert Winstanley, blacksmith and Ronald Maxwell, solicitor.  Effects £343 5s 11d